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This seems to be a tough find. I have read too many articles on fat loss type cardio and nothing to address the bodybuilder type with actual race running training. I know they seem a bit odd. I have been bodybuilding more than half of my life and running races for a bout the same. I am the guy the skinny little runners dismiss until we get to the finish line. I have been searching for anyone doing this type of training. Looking for an effective split routine that allows speed endurance and muscle. I train for the Arnold PnR every year and have placed in the top 10 several times. Though I have never won they seem to like using my picture for the poster. I don’t look like a regular runner and I know I am not the only one out there, seeing how the field at the Arnold grows each year. The first time I saw the event there were about 150 now they open and close 850 lifter runners in less than 10hrs. of registration. Looking to share training info with others.

Wow thats impressive. Those are two different worlds when it comes to training. Wat do you do right now for training?

Wow thats impressive. Those are two different worlds when it comes to training. Wat do you do right now for training?

Thanks Rob, I weight train three days and run 4-5 days. The tough part comes with trying to balance leg training and distance. I try to cycle on an off of heavy training. If I am preparing for a race the speed work and lighter circuits of legs seems to be ok just not a lot of time to recover. I also do some supplimental lifts on running days . It might be a 20min. chest and back superset or arm workout…i think those are more for my psyche than for physical. After race season I will usually change gears back to heavier squating every year gets tougher to go back to the heavy. Just looking for more balance. That old bodybuilder in me won’t give up. I love weight training over all other exercise, but running has helped me with staying leaner and probably healthier overall as well. I see that you have been to the arnold in a different arena and kicked its ass…nice job yourself.!

yes.. good point Rob.. what does your split look like now?
 
ANd what does your meal plan and supplements consist of?

Right now I am doing a kind of recuperative workout. It is actually a combo of three workouts mon.-thr stretch band,mobility,rolling warmup about 10 min. then Tom Furmon has a bodyweight workout I have been following pistol squat 25-40 reps per leg, weighted pull-ups, and hands tand push ups, all exercises are for 25-40 reps my first set is as many as I can then 1 min. rest between sets until I get to the number of reps I have chose. This workout takes about 20min. The pistol squat is killing me. It is almost hard to believe it can be so difficult with no weight. After that for abs I do some Dan Johns weighted carries farmers walk,waiter,suit case…I do a bilateral then unilateral movement. Simple but but kicking. Run days right now wed. after a .5mile warm up I go to 5-10% incline and interval 45 sec. at 10mph 45 sec. rest .5mile cool down
Saturday 5k pace run on the road ,sometimes interval. Sunday 5-7miles try to stay at sub 7min. pace.    Eating is very structured for me I do the same things very often. pre workout coffee,scoop of whey and 1/2 a banana post breakfast 4-6 eggs, spinach on a slice of whole wheat. Or I make a mean protien pancake bobs redmill 7grain pancake mix, scoop of dymatize elite, two eggs, flax, olive oil,sun flower seeds or ground almonds. yeilds 3 med. size pancakes. snack shake scoop of whey and an apple or other piece of fruit, lunch salad with balsalmic and a piece of protein any(chick,turk,fish) snack whey and fruit, dinner more salad or weight watcher soup an  protien of any kind.  Supps are fish oil , a daily,  d3 and creatine( my favorite supp!). My workouts change throughout the year. Through the summer heavier leg workouts 531 type stuff or 54321, Usually a three day split and more running days two spped days on the run and three days of longer runs from5-10 miles. Like I said my workout currently is just something to cleanse the palate a bit. I have been aching a bit and It had been a while since I did something completely different. I am mental that way….go till you hurt til I change it…not alwways smart.

Wow, you are incredibly dedicated. It is pretty rare that somebody chooses those two sports together. Props to you for having the discipline and dedication to stick to it!

I think the change has started where there are more multi sport events and it lends itself to having strength and endurance like the mud runs, warrior, tough mudder and others are starting to pop up because running by itself gets old.

have you tried olympic lifting, cross fit, or mma  type workouts.. they are all explosive and work the whole body?
 
Your diet looks good but dont you need more carbs for running?
 
Its hard to be a body builder and a runner however it seems like you have gret genetics were you can hold onto muscle.
 
do you take alot of bcaas? thats a MUST!
 
What problems are you running into?  Why are you looking to change your routine (just something new?)
 
 

yeah man, that’s a tough call trying to balance two different sports and expecting to excel at them, especially ones so different. there really isn’t a good answer as to how to set up your training to be truly successful at both, because they require pretty conflicting body types. there’s a reason distance runners don’t have a ton of muscle, as opposed to short distance runners. your body can’t maintain that kind of muscle while running distance because of the sheer magnitude of calories you’ll burn, both from the actual running over the great distance, and then even while you aren’t active with that much lean body mass. wish i could say there was an answer, but honestly if i had to give you an answer it would be to choose one sport to be super competitive and successful in, and the other one as a hobby. good luck though man, if you can pull it off that’d be sick.

Pete has a good point, it really hard to truly excel with these two VERY different goals…However i think his main focus is running however he wants to try and prevent muscle loss and maybe build some along the way which i don’t think is impossible… He has been running for a while and has a lot of muscle on him for a traditional long distance runner.. I think he has great genetics which could work for him in this case.
 
I think he is just looking for some new ideas… he is not trying to run in the Olympics for gods sakes … it’s just a hobby lol
 
 
Pete do you have any other recommendations? I am sure you have something up your sleeve? I suggested Olympic lifting, ccross fit type workouts or mma type workouts ( those fighters are ripper with muscle!!)
 

Yeah I think that the bodybuilding as far as competeing is over for me. Not because I don’t enjoy it but just for time and practical reasons. I am just interested if there are others doing these two types of training and blending them well with balance of speed endurance and size….with in reason. I would like to do a bit with olympic lifts and the cross fit thing I like the concept not sold on the total package..I think there is value to it even as supplemental workouts for endurance. Looking to see what others are doing…yeah that is what I am looking for. Clarity is a good thing.

did you ever read lonnies journal.. he runs alot and trains.. two very different goals but he makes it work.. He actually works out in his own basment!! ..
 
http://www.muscledog.com/forum/JOURNALS_MEN/1059/LONNIES_DAILY_WORKOUT.html#
 
check out his journal!!

That cat is 65yrs old and looks fantastic. I train a guy right now 60yrs old and it is amazing what he has been able to accomplish. People don’t give the human body enough credit for building at any age. Improvement can always be made. I will check it out!

 
yeah, i would say dropping the bodybuilding, at least as an area of focus, will help you to improve in your distance running. if anything, i might recommend integrating more sprint training and olympic lifting, which should help you with improving your speed and explosiveness while maintaining some good size and strength. 

we have a lot of track kids come and train at our facility, and they love doing the olympic lifts and dont think it detracts from their runnning at all. the lifts work your whole body, and as evidenced by our lifters, doing them alone can help give you a pretty big and chiseled physique. as far as crossfit goes, i wouldn’t recommend getting too involved. we have a lot of people who have started crossfit come into our gym, asking to learn the proper way to lift, and telling us stories about injuries and all sorts of political mess that they are tired of dealing with. it is certainly a little cultish and i would avoid it if i was looking around for something to get started. 

on the other hand, a crossfit facility might be the only place where you can find access to an olympic lifting platform and bumper weights, so talking to them might be unavoidable. shrug.

Pete, do you have any sites or video of proper olympic lift techniques that you recommend?

Yeah, I have also heard some nightmares about crossfit. I have watched a few events and even spoken to some and it to me is still to scattered and short.

there are hundreds of videos on the internet teaching Olympic lifting, but most of them are laughable and teaching improper technique. you can check out our website, Californiastrength.com and search under the Videos section to see some technique videos, but we are still working on getting our full educational section operational. 

i would highly recommend you find an experienced coach, or try to get to a Pendlay or USAW seminar. Crossfit teaches absolutely terrible technique, but they admit that they don’t focus on technique as much as they focus on “work” in order to get results (at the expense of safety). working with a good coach can not only teach you good technique and make sure you are doing things safely, but it can also prevent you from forming bad habits, which is very easy to do once you start putting more weight on the bar and the lifts become harder.

where do you live?

north west PA right on the ohio boarder smack in the middle frpm pittsburgh to cleveland

Hi Jim, Laura linked me to your journal. Looks like we share similiar training backgrounds.

I have never competed in body building, it’s just been a hobby with me. I was a competitive distance runner, anywhere from 5K to marathon distances, until I was 50. Since that time I’ve just worked out to try and stay in shape. I did run a couple of 10Ks and a half marathon this past summer, I’ve slowed down a lot.

Body builders used to tell me that I ran too much to be a body builder and runners would say I lifted too much to be a good runner. I did both because I enjoyed it. I still do.

Because of our age difference, I’m not sure I can offer any training advice, but I do offer my support. During my competition days I would do full body workouts 3 days a week with a lot of core training. I usually ran 6 days a week averaging 40 to 50 miles a week. On weeks I wasn’t running a race, I would do at least one high intensity speed workout a week. My 10K times ranged between 35 and 40 mins depending on the day and the course.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for your response. Yeah I have just started a Dan Johns workout it is a two days a week of weight training. Big exercises in little time. I am going to try to pick my miles back up. try to hit the run 5 days. Running longer definitely helped me to feel more comfortable. Last year after the Arnold pump and run I did a 10 miler and I stayed under 7 min. miles for the 10 and thought alright I will run the half. I continued after I made the hand off at the PItts marathon relay and I felt great. When I finshed that I was ready to get back to the squat but man it has gotten tougher to get back to a nice squat weight. I just am stuck in that transition. I love the weights and al though I don’t love running I would like to see if I can knock down a 17 min 5k. I want to see if it is in there. I ran a 18:40 at the Arnold, 69min. at the Columbus 10 miler, I think I am capable just not sure I am ready to commit. I would enjoy hearing your side of training.

I would have to say that I would deffinitly take weight training over running, I know that weight training is hard but running is way to boring. Plus I am not built for running what so ever, so I figured if I could not run from my problems I must get strong and stand my ground.

I like it! Get strong and stand your ground  I might have to steal that!

If you want me to be completely honest on this, here is the quote that says it best… “If you chase two rabbits, both will escape.”
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Aka - If you try to excel at 2 different high level things you will fail at both.

great quote max!
 
Pete! love your quote to.. but in is pictures it looks like he is holding onto god muscle?? i aree with you that you cant excel in both at the same time.. but it looks like he is holding onto some decent muscle??
 
Like i mentioned before i dont think he is trying to be a pro body builder

I belive you can excel at one thing and be really good at another. I think Jim is doing this very well. His running times certainly are competitive for his age group and, from the looks of his pictures, he is doing a mighty fine job as a body builder.

Thanks Lonnie. Although I probably won’t compete as a bodybuilder I do love the look and the training. The running I like the competition. I guess I want to be the best I can be right now. Like I said before I know I am not alone. I am looking to see who else is finding that balance that works for them. Lonnie is a great example..long running career and tranforming to a more bodybuilder approach still keeping the run in his workouts. I am 44 and don’t expect to be at the next Olympia or even winning a big race. I am looking to do the best I can.

so i say keep doing what you are doing.. if it aint broken dont fix it.. you are very lucky to have good genetics.. it does not look like you are losing muscle.. do you have recent pics or is your profile picture your current look?

I would say that is very lean 09 170 day before the arnold pnr I am usually 185-180 still lean but not that sharp. I try to get to that level once or twice a year.

I am sure you cut down on running once a year then to build some muscle…
 
If you are really passionate about running do it but keep doing your compound lifts and make sure to supplement with bcaa and healthy nutrition
 
Lift like a bodybuilderand do lots of hiit work….
 
hiit, tabata, metobolic circuts and lift HEAVY when you do
 
I am sure you will at least maintain.. make sure to do loves of recovery work