MuscleDog.com - Connecting you to a better body!

Advertisement

How Many sets do you do and why?

 
  • How Many sets do you do and why?
  • April 28, 2011 12:55 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
Perform at Least 3 Sets for Each Exercise
This is really interesting.. what are your thoughts about these studies
 
By Charles Poliquin  
 
One of the most common beliefs in weight training is that only one set needs to be performed for optimal results, an idea that was first popularized by Nautilus inventor Arthur Jones. Many research studies have proved this idea to be false. In fact, multiple sets are always superior for trainees, with the possible exception of beginners with no weight training experience. But this begs the question “How many sets will produce optimal results?” This is the question that James Kreiger addressed in his meta-analysis published in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research (2009). 23:1890-1901.
 
A meta-analysis is a study that looks at a collection of research studies as one entity and makes conclusions based upon the data from the cumulative research. Kreiger found 14 studies that compared single-set protocols to multiple-set protocols, and held constant other variables that could affect results, such as training intensity and training frequency. What he found was that 2-3 sets produced 46 percent greater gains in strength than one sets, but that 4-6 sets produced 13 percent greater gains than 2-3 sets. Based upon these findings, we can conclude that 3 sets per exercise should be performed when the most bang for your buck approach is considered. However when levels of maximal strength are imperative, such as in weightlifting or throws, the extra sets are worth the effort.. Therefore,  additional sets produce a condition of diminishing results that may not be worth the effort depending on the training goal.
 
You also have to consider that most sets studies rarely involve the 1-3 R.M. range, hence the number of sets  for that rep range could be underestimated. It is not uncommon for leading coaches in the sport of powerlifting and weightlifting to use between 12-20 sets for that intensity zone. Again, the law of diminishing returns would apply to that intensity zone.
 
 
 
  • How many sets do you do and why?
  • April 28, 2011 05:09 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
I do at least 4 sets and ocassionaly 5 or 6. The older I get the harder it is to lift heavy weights without injuring something so I just increase the number of sets. I train for endurance and muscular definition. I seem to get the best results with the increased number of sets.
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • April 29, 2011 02:32 AM
  • Quote
  • Reply
I’m usually in that 4-6 rep range, but I hadn’t ever seen this research. This is really good info, thanks for sharing! I’ve always instructed my clients to shoot for this range as well, but didn’t know to tell them scientifically why.

You really love Poliquin don’t you Laura? =)
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • April 29, 2011 10:21 AM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
I do at least 4 sets and ocassionaly 5 or 6. The older I get the harder it is to lift heavy weights without injuring something so I just increase the number of sets. I train for endurance and muscular definition. I seem to get the best results with the increased number of sets.
 
 
 
 
Great goal and idea!!! You are training smart but efficient!
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • April 29, 2011 03:22 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
I always enjoy reading Poliquins articles. He really has a pretty unique angle on different things. I generally stay in the 3-5 set range as well depending on the exercise. Poliquin isn’t afraid to post controversial articles either, which is awesome.
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • April 29, 2011 03:58 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
charles is my favorite!! I also follow the 3-5 sets range.
 
I see no need to do more for my goals
 
 
 
one is all you need!
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • April 29, 2011 07:43 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
I usually 8-12 sets on primary and 5-8 sets on supplementary lifts.My rep range on the primarys are 3-5. Supp lifts can vary dependant on the work being done. We track our training with total volume lifted per session. I Challenge any of you to do that. and for you olympic lifters use your daily totals I think you would be suprised at the volume of weight moved in a weeks time(especialy for you guys). this weeks training for me. Monday 80,000 tuesday 60,000 wednesday 112,000 thursday 45,000 friday 71,000 total 368,000 lb moved this week.
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 01, 2011 05:15 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
I do one all out set! If you can train with the right intensity and fail on both the positive and negative part of the reps and total muscle failure, why do one more set??! Your only going to put more stress on your central nervous system and recover abilities and take a lot longer to recover without added benefit.
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 01, 2011 09:42 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
one is all you need!
 
 

 
Why do you say this, Jon?
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 01, 2011 10:46 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
I do one all out set! If you can train with the right intensity and fail on both the positive and negative part of the reps and total muscle failure, why do one more set??! Your only going to put more stress on your central nervous system and recover abilities and take a lot longer to recover without added benefit.
 
 
This not only a philosophy of Arthur Jones, but also one Dorian Yates follows. Branch Warren tried this approach, but stated he needed more volume.
As others, I typically stay in the 3-4 set range and sometimes do 7 sets for my last exercise (Hany Rambod’s FST-7).
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 02, 2011 12:12 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
I do one all out set! If you can train with the right intensity and fail on both the positive and negative part of the reps and total muscle failure, why do one more set??! Your only going to put more stress on your central nervous system and recover abilities and take a lot longer to recover without added benefit.
 
 
 
 
so how many warm ups sets do you do?
 
Are you saying you only do one set??
 
 
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 02, 2011 12:14 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
[ This not only a philosophy of Arthur Jones, but also one Dorian Yates follows. Branch Warren tried this approach, but stated he needed more volume.
As others, I typically stay in the 3-4 set range and sometimes do 7 sets for my last exercise (Hany Rambod’s FST-7)
 
 

 
how many exercises do they do.. do they do warm ups sets?? this is confusing?
 
how long does there workout last?
 
How many exercises do they do and how many body parts per day?
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 02, 2011 01:40 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
[quote][ This not only a philosophy of Arthur Jones, but also one Dorian Yates follows. Branch Warren tried this approach, but stated he needed more volume.
As others, I typically stay in the 3-4 set range and sometimes do 7 sets for my last exercise (Hany Rambod’s FST-7)
 
 

 
how many exercises do they do.. do they do warm ups sets?? this is confusing?
 
how long does there workout last?
 
How many exercises do they do and how many body parts per day?[/QUOTE]
Dorian Yates does 2-3 warmup sets & then the one working set.
 
Hany’s FST-7 is 3-4 exercises per bodypart. You would keep the rep range between 8-12, but the last exercise you perform the 7 sets to finish off that particular muscle, with 30-45 seconds rest between sets to get the best pump possible.
 
Here is an example of a FST-7 split:
1-Bi’s,Tri’s,and Calves
2-Legs
3-off
4-Chest and Tri’s
5-Back and Calves
6-Shoulders and Bi’s
7-off 
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 02, 2011 02:38 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
My workouts always begin with 5-10minutes on a treadmill to get blood flowing and then I complete 2 warms up sets and then one all out set per exercise. I log every workout on my page, so you can see any them for example. When it says 3sets, thats including 2 warm ups and one work set. This style had worked for me, last year when I finished my diet I was 86kg at 13% bodyfat, Ive bulked up to 98kg at 18% bodyfat In 11months and I currently started a diet and Im now 16.5%bodyfat at 96.2kg. So I’ve clearly added quality muscle, by getting in the gym destroy the muscle and spend more time at home, eating and recovering.
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 02, 2011 03:25 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
Hany’s FST-7 is 3-4 exercises per bodypart. You would keep the rep range between 8-12, but the last exercise you perform the 7 sets to finish off that particular muscle, with 30-45 seconds rest between sets to get the best pump possible. 
 
Here is an example of a FST-7 split:
1-Bi’s,Tri’s,and Calves
2-Legs
3-off
4-Chest and Tri’s
5-Back and Calves
6-Shoulders and Bi’s
7-off 
 
 
  
   
   
 
Why are you doing bis and tri’s two times a week? Wouldn’t you rather hit bigger muscle groups .. maybe compound movments?
 
Are these your lagging body parts?
 
Does this include warm ups sets?
 
Do you do any cardio in his program?
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 02, 2011 03:34 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
My workouts always begin with 5-10minutes on a treadmill to get blood flowing and then I complete 2 warms up sets and then one all out set per exercise. I log every workout on my page, so you can see any them for example. When it says 3sets, thats including 2 warm ups and one work set. This style had worked for me, last year when I finished my diet I was 86kg at 13% bodyfat, Ive bulked up to 98kg at 18% bodyfat In 11months and I currently started a diet and Im now 16.5%bodyfat at 96.2kg. So I’ve clearly added quality muscle, by getting in the gym destroy the muscle and spend more time at home, eating and recovering.
 
 
 
 
There is no way you are 16% body fat dave.. you are much much less..
 
Were are you getting these numbers from
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 02, 2011 08:02 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
[quote]Hany’s FST-7 is 3-4 exercises per bodypart. You would keep the rep range between 8-12, but the last exercise you perform the 7 sets to finish off that particular muscle, with 30-45 seconds rest between sets to get the best pump possible. 
 
Here is an example of a FST-7 split:
1-Bi’s,Tri’s,and Calves
2-Legs
3-off
4-Chest and Tri’s
5-Back and Calves
6-Shoulders and Bi’s
7-off 
 
 
   
   
   
 
Why are you doing bis and tri’s two times a week? Wouldn’t you rather hit bigger muscle groups .. maybe compound movments?
 
Are these your lagging body parts?
 
Does this include warm ups sets?
 
Do you do any cardio in his program?[/QUOTE]
 
Warm up sets are not counted. I have never used this split. It is an example of a split Hany recommends.  Smaller muscle groups (bis, tris, calves) recover faster than larger ones (quads, back).
 
Hany recommends cardio based on the clients condition and how far out they are from a show. 
His 7 set method is designed to stretch the muscle fascia and get more blood into the muscle. 
I like to use various techniques on the last exercise for the same purpose: FST-7, supersets, giant sets, drop sets, rest pause, or rep out to failure on the last set.
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 03, 2011 03:23 AM
  • Quote
  • Reply
I set go up to max everyday
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 03, 2011 11:41 AM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
Warm up sets are not counted. I have never used this split. It is an example of a split Hany recommends. Smaller muscle groups (bis, tris, calves) recover faster than larger ones (quads, back).
 
 
 

 
Oh wow interesting.. i didnt now tris, bis nad calves recover fater.. makes sense.
 
What split do you do?
 
How many days of cardio do you follow?
 
 
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 03, 2011 11:42 AM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
I set go up to max everyday
 
 
 
 
What does this mean???????????
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 03, 2011 01:28 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
[quote]Warm up sets are not counted. I have never used this split. It is an example of a split Hany recommends. Smaller muscle groups (bis, tris, calves) recover faster than larger ones (quads, back).
 
 
 

 
Oh wow interesting.. i didnt now tris, bis nad calves recover fater.. makes sense.
 
What split do you do?
 
How many days of cardio do you follow?
 
 [/QUOTE]
Mon Hams & Calves
Tue  off
Wed Shoulders 
Thu Quads & Calves
Fri off
Sat Chest & Triceps
Sun Back & Biceps
 
Off season I do cardio 3 days a week
During contest prep I do cardio every day except the day I train Quads
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 03, 2011 03:35 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
 Mon Hams & Calves
Tue  off
Wed Shoulders 
Thu Quads & Calves
Fri off
Sat Chest & Triceps
Sun Back & Biceps
 
Off season I do cardio 3 days a week
During contest prep I do cardio every day except the day I train Quads
 
 

  
  Thats a nice little split.
 
You do steady state cardio right? fasted state?
 
do you ever change up your plit like work same muscle group twice if its lagging?
 
DO you ever super set or just save that for last set?
 
 
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 03, 2011 07:03 PM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
[quote] Mon Hams & Calves
Tue  off
Wed Shoulders 
Thu Quads & Calves
Fri off
Sat Chest & Triceps
Sun Back & Biceps
 
Off season I do cardio 3 days a week
During contest prep I do cardio every day except the day I train Quads
 
 
 
  
  Thats a nice little split.
 
You do steady state cardio right? fasted state?
 
do you ever change up your plit like work same muscle group twice if its lagging?
 
DO you ever super set or just save that for last set?
 
 [/QUOTE]
I do steady state cardio.
I have used a 6 day split and moved bis & tris to a day of their own. The 6 day split gets me out of the gym sooner on two training days and gives me more time for tanning and posing practice.
I usually save the supersets for the last exercise. I am trying to go heavy to maintain or build muscle with the preceeding exercises. During contest prep, if my energy level has drastically dropped, I will occasionally do supersets throughout a workout.
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 04, 2011 09:32 AM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
I do steady state cardio.
I have used a 6 day split and moved bis & tris to a day of their own. The 6 day split gets me out of the gym sooner on two training days and gives me more time for tanning and posing practice.
I usually save the supersets for the last exercise. I am trying to go heavy to maintain or build muscle with the preceeding exercises. During contest prep, if my energy level has drastically dropped, I will occasionally do supersets throughout a workout. 
   
 
 

 
I think super sets are harder? You dont think so? 
It burns me out more then doing single sets so i am dont understand why you woudl do this if you are tired?
 
DO you think its important to go tanning?? why not just do the spray tan?
 
Does anyone help you wiht  your routine and posing?
  
 
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 11, 2011 12:53 AM
  • Quote
  • Reply
It depends on what your goals are? are you trying to get stronger? are you trying to get tone? etc
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 11, 2011 07:19 AM
  • Quote
  • Reply
 
Quote
[quote]I do steady state cardio.
I have used a 6 day split and moved bis & tris to a day of their own. The 6 day split gets me out of the gym sooner on two training days and gives me more time for tanning and posing practice.
I usually save the supersets for the last exercise. I am trying to go heavy to maintain or build muscle with the preceeding exercises. During contest prep, if my energy level has drastically dropped, I will occasionally do supersets throughout a workout. 
   
 
 
  
I think super sets are harder? You dont think so? 
It burns me out more then doing single sets so i am dont understand why you woudl do this if you are tired?
 
DO you think its important to go tanning?? why not just do the spray tan?
 
Does anyone help you wiht  your routine and posing?
  
 [/QUOTE]
I think supersets tax the cardiovascular system more than straight sets, but are not as effective for adding mass. I use supersets to get additional blood into the muscle. Also, when I superset, I target one muscle group with both exercises (eg. DB flye & DB press). 
 
It is important to get a base tan. A competitor will be darker if they have a base tan before getting spray tanned. I have never seen a bodybuilder too dark on stage. Having the color right can make a difference in one or two placings.
 
I had a collegiate national and two-time state champ help me develop my routines last year.  Every chance I get during prep, I have a seasoned competitor or judge watch & critique me as I go through the mandatories & qtr turns.
 
 
 
  • RE:How Many sets do you do and why?
  • May 11, 2011 11:23 AM
  • Quote
  • Reply
“I think supersets tax the cardiovascular system more than straight sets, but are not as effective for adding mass. “
 
I see your point… BUT there are studies that show supersets can help increase muscle mass when incorporated properly into your routine… I guess it can be a new stimulus or shock to your body as well if you add them once a while… But you are right… Typically super setting is not ideal for mass building…
 
 
“Having the color right can make a difference in one or two placings.”
 
Stage presence is soooo important… I getting a base tan would help bring out your color more… It also even your color out
 
I have a seasoned competitor or judge watch & critique me as I go through the mandatories & qtr turns. “
 
So smart… It’s so important to get a different perspective and critique from someone else