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IAMBB2K … QUOTE
 
 
There are far worse things for the body, available over the counter, than steroids. A wise man once said “show me the bodies”. No one has ever died from steroid use. They have tried to blame steroids but never had proof. Steroids help people in so many ways but i do agree if a 180lb kid thinks he can inject 1000mg of test a week and be fine… hes stupid. The amount a pro takes is far different than what a much smaller person would take. Some cycle steroids on and off others will increase the dose then cut back and cruise, both ways have been shown to work and work safely.

llulko  QUOTE
 
 
What are you talking about you have not heard people dying from steroids??
 
I personally know people who have been hospitalized and or died due to steroid use. This includes organ failure, heart failure, even a brain tumor… Steroid use is not something to take lightly…
 
I disagree with it FULLY however if someone was going to take them they should be monitored by a doctor… I just don’t think its worth it…
 
Your life and health is worth a pro card??? Really?? For what??
 
Just compete in natural shows and work with what you were born with… put 120% in it… if its not meant to be then let it go and be happy you put your best…

IAMBB2K QUOTE
 
i’d love to see proof of these deaths by steroids. NEVER have i heard of anyone dying from steroids… ever. Not even muntzer. he died of dehydration and kidny failure. There has never been direct proof steroids killed anyone. If they did then why are they prescribed to so many people for so many GOOD HEALTHY reasons? Now dont get me wrong, i am all for the natural way just read a lot on steroids and love to debunk the crazy myths out there.

llulko  QUOTE
 
 
 
When steroids are abused! Which in most cases they are and not monitored by doctors the problems you listed above could have been caused due to steroids… 
 
I am sure they didn’t die from the injected steroid itself however the unmonitored use could have been the cause… i am telling you i know people that have had these problems 
 
 
 
I found this article.. just one of many.. I am not saying its common but it is a risk
 
By : Johanna Mauer     
 
Baldness. Those that have abused steroids side effects might expertise a loss of hair as a result. This may be on your head, as well as in other areas of your body where hair will grow. Even though this is a tough symptom to directly attribute to steroid abuse, it is one factor which is a most likely lengthy term result of abusing steroids. 
 
 
Glaucoma. Glaucoma outcomes in increased intraocular steroids side effects pressure, according to the Mayo Clinic, and is typically diagnosed only whenever you need a new pair of glasses and your doctor checks your eye pressure. Glaucoma can cause a mild aching within the eyes along with a loss of peripheral vision. See your physician if you notice an alter inside your vision whilst taking steroids. 
 
 
Jaundice. Should you suspect you are experiencing the typical signs of jaundice then you should obviously consult a medical steroids side effects expert. Signs of jaundice includes yellowing of the skin and eyes. 
 
 
Liver tumors are typical among those that have taken steroids side effects for lengthy periods at a time. If you suspect you might be having liver related issues as a result of taking steroids you should consult a physician instantly. 
 
 
Acute Adrenal Insufficiency. One of the much more serious side effects, adrenal steroids side effects insufficiency may result in death if not treated instantly, based on the National Endocrine and Metabolic Diseases Information Service. Symptoms consist of confusion, extreme fatigue, weight loss along with a change in skin pigmentation. 
 
 
Heart Failure of steroids side effects. The Mayo Clinic warns that heart failure is a possible side effect of steroid therapy. You may experience a feeling of somebody sitting on your chest, you may tire easily, or really feel as although you’re not taking in enough oxygen. Discuss these symptoms with your doctor. 
 
 
Deepened Voice is steroids side effects. Women who take steroids will frequently have a deeper voice as a result. 
 
 
Develop Breasts is steroids side effects. Males who take
steroids might expertise breast development similar to ladies as a result of taking steroids. 
 
 
Arrhythmias. Palpitations along with a rapid heart beat may happen whilst taking steroids. Discuss these events together with your physician as they could lead to much more significant steroids side effects complications.

IAMBB2K  QUOTE
 
 
 
llulko, 99% of the “side effects” you listed are not steroid related. They are problems people can get without steroid use. Baldness? lol That isnt steroids thats hereditary. And glaucoma can happen to ANYONE. Deepened voice? ive never seen or heard ANY man getting a deepened voice from steroids.. women are a different story. Besides a deepened voice wont kill anyone. Breasts? Most men develope these with or with out steroids… i had gyno as a kid and wasnt taking any steroids…? Rapid heart beat?? Never heard of steroids causing that EXCEPT when a novice trys to run an advanced cycle and blood pressure rises. Jaundice? you can get that from drinking to much alcohol, blood transfucions, having sex with someone that has hepititus etc.
 
Im not saying they are 100% safe because like any other drug, prescribed or OTC they can be abused. But the “side effects” you listed have been bunked many times over. Never have i seen a research study that proved steroids were the number one cause of anything related to death

Thanks for moving this here my friend. I would like to hear others input as well. Hopefully more people will chime in.

Now this is one I want involved in I have been around this stuff since I was twelve years old Bro. No disrespect but I have seen with my own eyes the results of misuse of these drugs. Heart failure lucky my friend is still alive with the heart of a Bull (Bulls dont live that long). And another friend who was monitored by @#$%%^& who has breasts bigger than my wife and we have four kids. I actually talk to youth about this drug and I wish I could get some people I know who it effected horribly to talk with me to them one problem They are know longer with us. For one if you are going to get freaky big and not doing it for health reasons you are taking to much! If you are not a victim of low test you are taking to much. So what you have money and can afford the rediculouse prices of this stuff when obtained legally. No thats not it you buy it from the guy at the gym who can’t scratch his ass. Or you are one of those atheletes who think they know everything AS I have said I strongly oppose their use legally or not unless you have a real medical need.
some reading material http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C10/C10Links/www.tcada.state.tx.us/research/facts/ster-
oids.html
http://www.anabolicsmall.com/steroid_risks.html http://articles.nydailynews.com/2008-06-28/sports/17900396_1_cardiac-sudden-death-med-
ical-examiner-anabolic-steroids

Depends on how you look at it, I personally think steroids should be legal in sports, military, andbodybuilding, we are paying to see larger than life people. We want to see baseball players hitting home runs, those guys arnt supposed to look like average joes! i want to see something i cant have, i want to see people that look like super heroes and i want my moneys worth. And if they want to take the risk that may be present then hey, they obviously care about the fans, they wanna give us what we want. 

See this is the problem its all about the money and the fans. Who cares about the Athelete they are trained to perform well and obviously better than most or most people would be Pro at something. Check the average life cycle of an NFL player it is disturbingly low and fairly consistant in age. These guys are already taking enough risks with what could be life altering or even fatal injurys is this not enough. The people of this world are selfish and cant just be satisfied with Natural freaks. I am proud to say I hold US regional and a few state records and have never had the desire or need to supplement.

 
This is by far the most naive selfish comment I have every read… Wade said it perfectly
 
“The people of this world are selfish and can’t just be satisfied with Natural freaks”
 
 
 
Pro athletes are supposed to be natural FREAKS with talent, work ethic, and inspiring role models.  You really want your kids to look up to people like that or believe that they can’t reach this level of success without taking drugs?
 
How dumb is that!  
 
I don’t care how far they hit or how many baskets they shoot… Bottom like if you are the best of the best then you derive it… It’s great to see records beat but that should be due to there talent, skill level and LUCK!
 
 
“No disrespect but I have seen with my own eyes the results of misuse of these drugs. Heart failure lucky my friend is still alive with the heart of a Bull (Bulls don’t live that long)”
 
“They are know longer with us. For one if you are going to get freaky big and not doing it for health reasons you are taking to much”
 
REALLY!! You are willing to risk your life for this sh*t?  You would rather see pro athletes live a short life just to see them break a record?? That is the most selfish thing I have ever heard.
 
These are not role models… this better never become legal

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20153798
“Anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) are synthetic drugs derived from
testosterone. Illegally, these drugs are regularly self-administered by
body builders and power lifters to enhance their sportive performance.
Adverse side effects of AAS include sexual dysfunction, alterations of
the cardiovascular system, psyche and behavior, and liver toxicity.
However, severe side effects appear only following prolonged use of AAS
at high dose and their occurrence is limited. Occasionally, AAS abuse
may be linked to certain social and psychological traits of the user,
like low self-esteem, low self-confidence, suffered hostility, childhood
conduct disorder, and tendency to high-risk behavior. The overwhelming
stereotype about AAS is that these compounds cause aggressive behavior
in males. However, the underlying personality traits of a specific
subgroup of the AAS abusers, who show aggression and hostility, may be
relevant, as well. Use of AAS in combination with alcohol largely
increases the risk of violence and aggression. The dependence liability
of AAS is very low, and withdrawal effects are relatively mild. Based on
the scores for acute and chronic adverse health effects, the prevalence
of use, social harm and criminality, AAS were ranked among 19 illicit
drugs as a group of drugs with a relatively low harm.”
studies have been done, and they show that there are indeed side effects, but these are the conclusions. you have to keep in mind though, that research data can be manipulated to show whatever you want, depending on who is funding the research.
obviously steroids have beneficial medicinal uses, and they are definitely abused by athletes and competitors and i don’t doubt that they have affects that are dangerous. the issue of testing that level of steroid use is more a moral one than a medical one, and those types of tests are usually reserved for animals. the complication there is that the adverse affects from steroid use are typically due to long term abuse, and animals usually have much shorter lifespans. which makes it hard to prove that any of these affects exist.
i try not to lean one way or the other until there is some scientific evidence, so i admittedly sit on the fence over this issue. i don’t condone steroid use, because i would rather err on the side of caution and not see someone use something that really is dangerous, but i do acknowledge BBK’s argument that there is no concrete scientific proof that it happens. i am saying that Butch and Laura haven’t seen people directly effected by them, but i have never met someone who has taken the juice, let alone someone that has seen complications (or died) because of them.

See this is what I am saying people just do not want to admit there is a problem with these drugs. I would like you all to look at major atheletes that have been known users abusers however you want to say it. But just look to the those people who did use and they for the most part have one thing in common. They passed long before there time. My buddy Jimmy Kolb will be chimming in on this later this weekend and I am really looking forward to what he has to say. We both grew up in the strength sports and you really wouldnt believe Pete how many of our athelete’s have died before there fourtieth birthday. Hell we in the last few years have lost some guys in there 20’s. One big thing they all have in common is enlarged heart being the result or their death. Are we to believe that all of these people some how had the same problem from birth No.Just because there is no direct corolation suggesting steriods as the cause the sheer numbers who have died and died of the same thing is undisputable. I am not talking a handful of people either. I believe that I can be the best I can with out the use of the drug, Danny Jon Scott Porter Jason and the rest of my 37 members of the ohio team believe we can be the best we can. Which brings me to my next point succes is not as dependant on these drugs as many have always believed. Jon Elick is ranked #6 period in his division and Drug free Jimmy Kolb is one of the top lifters in the world (Holding many world records not to mention an over 800 yes 800lb bench) at under 220lb and is a 100%er never having used. The point is work within your means and work hard. Do not ever think you need the drugs to be the best I just showed you numbers and names that prove it at least in my sport. They are Illegal and truly this discussion should be one sided if you condone the use of these drugs you may as well jump on the band wagon and legalize pot it has been proven to show benefits to health and little to no adverse effects. Cant play one side of the deck bro either your in with the junkies or you are someone trying to educate and make a difference in the world and prevent our youth from following the designer trends.It would be hypocritical to not agree with the above statement. I for one have dedicated my life to attempt to show people the way I believe they can add to the life they have without assistance. And will stand my ground til the end
 
Butch

i did say in my post that i don’t condone them, and that i don’t discount what you said, i just have never seen the same types of things as you have. i don’t doubt that steroids cause adverse effects and that they can contribute to an early demise, i just don’t have any proof. i’m saying it’s a complex issue because it is such a hard thing to test, and who in their right mind would sign up for testing on something that could potentially be fatal. if they did an anonymous longitudinal study with the life expectancy results of all athletes who have used vs. those who haven’t, or at least a large sample size, and could document ailments and comlications without releasing the names, then they should do it, cause that is about the only way they would ever be able to test and prove definitively that steroids do anything other than augment athletic abilities.

i’m not saying that you guys are wrong, i am just pointing out that the medical community doesn’t have a definitive answer. and FWIW, i am actually in favor of legalizing marijuana, but that is a whole different debate and doesn’t mean that i am in favor of steroid use.

Pete im done cannot type anymore you stoner HAHAHAHAHAHA. Na just kidding its all good bro. My biggest concern with this string is sending mixed messages to the youth who read these post’s. And being the one who influenced a decision that may or may not effect someone’s life in a negative way. Abstaining is the safest way to be and until someone comes up with definitive answer that will never change

the only thing i have to say to the ongoing issue of steroid use is that you dont need them, and in my opinion it’s pure laziness. those who want an easy route to great strength will use them. it is possible to achieve world class strength without them. it’s just damn hard. that’s the fun part for me. coming back stronger from each session in the gym. this past year i have achieved an 800 pound bench, and then a 2,410 total (900,810,700) all at 220 and 20 years old, and i’m planning on benching over 800 pounds tomorrow morning single ply. if there is one thing that makes me proud to tell people when they ask about my achievements…it is that i’m drug free. and i ALWAYS will be.

 
Well said,
 
Its pure laziness!!
 
To be the best of the best you have to work super hard!!! If you take steroids you are just cheating your self… What goal have YOU accomplished?
 
Wade you could not have said it better with real life experiences….You are so right, you are either for them or not!!! There is plenty of proof out there that steroids could lead to death.
 
Pete, maybe there are no legit studies (due to your explanation) BUT you hear real life experiences all the time… It’s so sad that individuals especially kids don’t hear these horrific stories.
 
We need more people like Wade to educate our youth about this poison!!
 
 

JonNorth
 
“So you are saying that every Olympic gold medal weightlifter is a loser?  all pro body builders are losers?  Barry Bonds and Marrian Jones are losers???????        this is a big statement”
 
 

llulko 
i dont have respect for thier win and glory.
 
I know they all work hard, have motivation dedication ect but its plain old cheating..
 
What about the 2nd 3rd or 4th place winner that was natural?/ is that a fair wiln??
 
they obviously were not born a winner so they opted for cheating to in..
 
maybe “loser” is a harsh word.. bottom line I dont respect thier win..

JonNorth

Quote
“That is fair, thats your opinion and I respect it.”
 
 
 
 
 

jesterno2  Quote
 
“Have you ever seen the documentary “Bigger, Stronger, Faster.” You need to. You would be just shocked at what % of professional athletes use steroids. They aren’t losers because they take steroids. In the Olympics it’s not the steroids that puit them over the top. That is a constant. It is their work ethic and talent that do. The steroids are the constant and the other intangibles remain the variables on who succeeds and who doesn’t. That is the truth whether America wants to know it or not.”

Quote llulko
 
“I guess i like to live in my unrealistic world and believe there is true talent out there that does not need steroids. I refuse to condone it or even believe it acceptable…
 
At least these professional athletes have doctors or professional administering it… It’s unfortunate to see non elite athletes partaking this garbage for physical esthetics…
 
 
I am sorry if i offened anyone but thats my opinion.. It kills me to see young kill abusing it”

Quote  jesterno2
 
 
“You are absolutely right llulko. It is sad, but, the truth hurts. Ya know? Some young do abuse it. It’s always a select few who ruin the image of steroids anyway. That is the same with anything really. Only the people who abuse alcohol make it look terrible (drunk driving). Social drinkers- it can be proven to extend your life with a glass of the right stuff a night. Ya know? People take Testosterone Replacement Therapy to LIVE LONGER when they are old. It gives them more energy and doctors prescribe testosterone. The most popular steroid on the market is straight testosterone. The EXACT same testosterone doctors give older people when their test levels are low.

I really wish they could level out the playing field as well, but, it’s not a reality right now. The playing field is as uneven as it gets unfortunately.”

JonNorth Quote
 
 
“This is a vert good topic that shoud be talked about, i see both sides but I would have to agree with jesterno on this one.  when everyone is takeing them at the top level then it is a level playing field.  we cant stop it, even though it might suk, but calling them losers is hard core.  In my opinion you NEED to do them to even compete these days, you have no choice unlease you want to be just ok. ”

you cheer and root for athletes on steriods everyday when you watch the Olympics and other sports from football to baseball.  So its crazy to say that they are losres when you are there fan!!!   YEs IT IS ABOUT MONEY.  are you serious, athletes have family’s to feed, its a job just like any other job, these athletes have to do good to support there whole family, so yes its about money, I think anybody who says its not about money means there not makeing big money.   at the end of the day its all about money.   if you guys dont like it then get involved in your locol flag football laugue on the weekends, or just train at your locol gym watching athletes play on the tv above your tred mill.

It is so hard to convince people one way or the other about steroids. I mean, I gave up trying 5 years ago haha. IT is just impossible to try to change someones beliefs/morals it seems. Obviously it makes for good discussion but still, just too frustrating.

I hope you are not referring to me..
 
Once i find out my favorite baseball player is taking steroids i loose all respect for him..
 
what about the other 2nd 3rd 4th place records that are natural and don’t take steroids?
 
They deserve the respect.. I don’t care what these athletes do whether its for the money or not.. That doesn’t effect me or change my mind.. I still lose respect for them and in my eyes they are not winners.. they are sore loser…  
 
And i am not a fan of most sports… i like baseball and that’s about it so you are barking up the wrong tree. Bottom line money or not.. these guys who take steroids were not able to beat the record without it.. they are not TRUE winners

Hey ullulko I am not talking to you, I am talking to everybody.  These are just completely my opinions, I understand that this is touchy subject, but i still like to debate this subject and I find it very interesting on what people’s thoughts are.    I hate going to international meets and loseing to other people that are clearly on something, but what am I going to do but just keep lifting and actually try to beat them without takeing that crap!!!!!

 
 
 
But doesn’t that upset you and make you mad… technically you beat them?
 
If anybody i would think you would be sooooo against it…
 
This is one reason why i stopped doing figure shows… the results were not realistic… why should the “cheater” beat me when I  worked ten times harder…
 
How can you condone professional athletes taking this crap when little kids look up to them… would you want you child to look up to someone that took steroids and believe that he has to take them to be successful in their sport?
 

 
 
 
But doesn’t that upset you and make you mad… technically you beat them?
 
If anybody i would think you would be sooooo against it…
 
This is one reason why i stopped doing figure shows… the results were not realistic… why should the “cheater” beat me when I  worked ten times harder…
 
How can you condone professional athletes taking this crap when little kids look up to them… would you want you child to look up to someone that took steroids and believe that he has to take them to be successful in their sport?
 

You just cant think like that, there is always going to be someone is life that has a “one up” on you.  someone who is makeing more money than you becuase there parents are rich, someone is is higher up than you at work becuase they slept with the boss, lol you know what I am saying, you just cant quit!  you have to keep fighting and do it for yourself, I will never let a druged athlete make me feel bad, I wont ever give them the time and day to get me down or upset at them.   you should get back into figure and do it for you, and let those druged girls that your not going anyhwere!  I am hear to stay bitches!         fight!   

Hahah.. Thanks for your positive attitude… I see your point but i still don’t agree… I just don’t think it’s right and fair…
 
If someone got a promotion because they slept with their boss that is WRONG!
 
Unfortunately its reality but that doesn’t make it right…
 
I would never condone it or respect anyone that did it…
 
Of course it’s their choice, there is nothing i could do about it other then look at them as a sore loser.
 
What if someone was raped?  Sadly its reality and it happens.. however, just because its reality does not make it RIGHT at all.  ‘
 
There are many other reason why i would never compete again (this is just one of the “small” reasons).
 
You would really expect your loss if you got 2nd or 3rd place in the Olympics to a guy that was all juiced up?? I don’t think you would be happy about that or respect them for it..
 
There are many things in life that are unfair, all i could do is follow my morals and stay true to my beliefs..