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What do you think is the best workout routine for fat loss while preventing muscle breakdown?
 
I would assume whole body workouts consisting of compound movements 3-4 times a week including HIIT..
 
However, when I ask most figure athlete and body builders about their workout routine it usually consists of body splits.
 
What are your thoughts?
 
Are compound movements enough to maintain or build lean muscle mass and aid in fat loss? Or would you recommend specific focus/volume on a particular muscle group ?

Great question, I am curious to see what people say cause I want to know the same thing. Our football workouts in high school were always full of compound exercises and full body routines but I’ve done mostly your typical body splits ever since.

for fat loss whole body workouts are more effective.

the reason bodybuilders and competitors use body splits is because those are more effective for building up muscle, and you can focus on particular parts and weak areas by devoting more time to each part. also by breaking up the parts they are able to rest other parts while working the one they are focusing on, thus allowing them to train every day and maintain the leanness.

If you do compound exercises aren’t you working more then one muscle group… for example pull ups hit back, biceps, core…
 
Therefore if you do 3-4 whole body workouts a week you are hitting each muscle group more then once with higher frequency, intensity and less volume…
 
So why would whole body workouts be less beneficial to body builders… Isn’t this just another technique?
 

 

The great confusion here is the elephant in the closet, steriods.  The ideal thing to do when your on them seems to be different than the ideal thing to do when your not on them.

If you are NOT on performance enhancing drugs, whole body workouts are the way to go for most people.   Modified plans where you have a workout A and a workout B…  say, legs and back and biceps on A and chest shoulders, triceps on B also works.

But your typical bodybuilding split where you exercise each muscle group once a week and use isolation exercises to work only 1 or 2 muscles per day works for very, very, very few people who are not on drugs.  And by “works” I mean causes a person to gain significant amounts of  muscle.

Interesting?  I wonder why most trainers and couches choose split body workouts…
 
I personally like to change things up… For three 3 weeks i will do whole body workouts and then change it up to split body workouts…
 
When I do split body workouts I choice two muscle groups
 
(ex) Back and triceps, 4 exercises per muscle group, 3-4 sets… I super set all my exercises .. Either same muscle group back to back or opposite muscle groups…
 
I like to keep my body guessing…
 

3 weeks is just long enough for your body to acclimate to a set of movements, but not long enough to actually reap any benefits from a particular program. you aren’t “keeping your body guessing” IMO, you’re “keeping it from progressing”

 
 
You have specifically stated that you DO NOT WANT TO GAIN MUSCLE.  I would say that what you are doing is absolutely perfect to reach your stated goal.

For someone who wants to gain muscle, or maybe gain muscle along with losing fat, a different approach might work a little better.

What would your approach be for someone that wants to gain muscle and lose fat along the way?
 
Just curious?

 
 
What benefits are you talking about Pete? 
 
As i mentioned before my goal is not to increase strength… I understand the more muscle you have the more efficient your body is at burning fat.
 
However i don’t want to increase muscle mass, just decrease alitttttttle more body fat…   
 
All i am trying to do is shock my body metabolically so my muscles respond to new stimulus…
 
How would i benefit doing the same workout routine (let’s say whole body workouts) for 4+ weeks??
 

   
 
What benefits are you talking about Pete? 
 
As i mentioned before my goal is not to increase strength… I understand the more muscle you have the more efficient your body is at burning fat.
 
However i don’t want to increase muscle mass, just decrease alitttttttle more body fat…   
 
All i am trying to do is shock my body metabolically so my muscles respond to new stimulus…
 
How would i benefit doing the same workout routine (let’s say whole body workouts) for 4+ weeks??
 [/QUOTE]

I hate to put words in Pete’s mouth, but I think like myself and almost anyone, he probably assumed that if you are lifting weights, you are wanting to gain muscle.  Usually that is what “make progress” means when the subject is weight training.  You are in a quite different catagory in that you do NOT want to make progress.
Might I ask this…  why do  you weight train at all?  You apparantly have limited time to train, and there are other things besides weight training which are much more effecient for fat loss.
Given your goals, why not just cut the lifting out and do more sessions of HIIT, I am betting y ou would reach your goals faster.

And one more question.  What does it mean to “shock your body metabolically”?

My goal as of “NOW” at this moment of my life is fat loss… I want to maintain my muscle mass (not lose any) I have worked very hard to gain the muscle mass I have… That would be foolish to stop lifting…  
 
Plus I enjoy it…
 
I completely understand the benefits of gaining muscle but that is not my goal “RIGHT NOW”  what is so wrong with that…
 
Maybe in a month or so my goals will change
 
I want to make “progress” with my body fat and I can easily manipulate that by what i am doing (limiting my cheats and wine on the weekends)… I have done it before and i am happy with my progress.  I don’t feel hungry, tired or weak with 1700 calories… So what is the PROBLEM??? What is YOUR fascination with eating 3000+ calories? (lol i might hit that on a summer weekend)…
 
Show me one female Olympic lifter who has the body type i am going for and then I will be convinced..
 
Please explain the benefits i would gain with your suggestions, i feel like we are not on the same page…
 
When i said “shock my body metabolically” I meant doing workout routines which focus on intensity, speed metabolism and prevent stagnation by changing things up such as exercises, rest period, rep ranges, weights, added plyos, ect. 

 
 
This is ridiculous for a couple of reasons.  The first is that you admit to shifting goals as fast as you probably change “outfits”.  Typical of the teenage boy who cant decide if he wants to gain muscle or get a 6-pack, and because he cant think critically he ends up doing neither.
The second is that you believe that you cant TRAIN TO GAIN MUSCLE even when you are dieting.  The attempt to gain musclein the atmosphere of caloric restriction, will result in no muscle gained, and more fat lost than training like you DONT want to gain, which is what you are doing now.

 

What is ridiculous?  We are agreeing on the same thing unless i am reading your comment wrong…
 
 
I know I can’t gain muscle with restricted calories and I know that if i weight train with intensity as if i wanted to build muscle I will lose fat in the process…
 
That is my goal… I am eating bellow maintance, supplementing, regulating my cardio (HIIT) in order to preserve muscle, and training hard in order to lose bf. 
 
 
SO what is the problem..?
 
What do you suggest?  You keep spitting out all this criticism but you have not given me an alternative for reaching my goal more efficiently..

 
OK…  yes, my last comment was very critical.  Let me explain.  It is so hard for most women to gain muscle, even if they are training to gain, and eating to gain…  and it is near impossible for a woman to gain muscle while on a calorie deficient diet.

I simply dont understand why you base your weight training on a style that is not effecient at causing muscle gain.  If you did, you would still probably not gain any, at most, very very little…  and the effort your body would make to attempt to remodel the tissue would go further, IMO, towards causing fat loss then the limited calories you are burning with your constantly changing high rep routine.

You also say that you are not interested in getting stronger.  I have to wonder why.  Do you understand that if you get stronger without gaining muscle (which is possible) that it means that you have aquired the ability to recruit more motor units for a given movement?

What do you think recruiting more motor units does to a movements calorie burning potential?  I am sure you can see where I am going.

So here is the reason for  the criticism.  I simply do not think the way you approach your weight training workouts is logical or is the best way to go about reaching your goals.

And furthermore…  anyone who has been in the gym or fitness business for a while has observed the “typical” female who wants to get into shape and, desperately needs to build some muscle to accomplish her goals, yet is afraid to lift anything but tricep extensions with little pink dumbells for fear of “bulking up”.

I am not putting you into that catagory…  however, dealing with that scenario time and again has made me, and many others I am sure, instantly see red when a girl starts to talk about how they dont want to get any stronger.

I would make you the following challenge.  If you KNOW that you cant gain a bunch of muscle while on a caloric deficient diet, then WHY NOT try to get your deadlift up to 300lbs, or your squat to 220lbs?  I think you might be surprised at how beneficial this could be to your training.

And by the way…  here is a video of me using Chelsea Kyle to demonstrate some technique points on the snatch.  She weighs about 110lbs, squats over 300lbs wearing only a belt, and is fairly petite.  I doubt you could say that she is too “bulky”.  She also has to eat over 3000 calories a day to maintain her weight.  Just something to think about…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3NqS0Ggsg8&feature=channel

Wow, that’s a great coaching video, and that girl is really hot, haha. I’ll have whatever she’s having!

Nice spirited debate you guys have going on here again. Entertaining and informational, I love it! =)

Glenn you are putting words in my mouth, but they are pretty much the words that i wouldve used anyways so no worries. i wont waste my time regurgitating things that you’ve already iterated, but yes, i am confused about the approach of using weightlifting as your fat-loss medium of choice. either you are doing it recreationally, or you have goals you are serious about achieving, but if the latter is the case then i agree that there are better approaches to obtain your goals such as complexes and HIIT, not any type of weightlifting split or routine.

i would also question why you don’t want to gain any muscle and encourage you to go check out the “inspiration” thread with all the pictures of fitness competitors and try to convince me that they aren’t incredibly beautiful while toting around that muscle. knowing that lean body mass helps to burn fat, and that women can’t really naturally gain too much muscle mass anyways due to low testosterone levels (without steroids at least), i just wonder what the insistence is on not training to gain muscle.

search out some interviews on jamie eason or pauline nordin, read how they train and how much they can (and do) lift, and find me a girl who wouldn’t give her left breast to look like they do. you keep bringing up Olympic lifting girls as if they are unattractive or bulky, when really these girls lift just as much weight.

that is where my confusion with your arguments stems from. and you need to stop thinking that we are insisting that you eat “over 3000 calories”. these recommendations are pretty much directed at young boys and men who are looking to gain muscle and weight, not girls looking to lose fat, as it says at the beginning of the article.

 

Pete…. Your previous comment disagrees with Glenns. You are saying to reach my goals I should do HIIT and complexes (no training routine) however Glenn is suggesting that i try to increase my squat, dead lift, and strength by increasing weight and deceasing reps..
 
You guys are staying two completely different things.
 
I am not against gaining muscle and i am fully aware “that lean body mass helps to burn fat, and that women can’t really naturally gain too much muscle mass anyways due to low testosterone levels (without steroids at least)” I KNOW THIS .. Have you not read my previous comments?
 
Lean muscle mass is “beautiful” and those models are gorgeous however they had goals… At one point their goal was to build muscle mass then it changed to fat loss/cutting especially for their photo shoots and competitions… I have a good amount of lean muscle mass… I am NOT against it…  “SH*T” why is my point not getting across!!
 
By the way, I follow Pauline Nordins blog and she is no longer squatting 200lb (low reps) because she does not like that BULKY look…  Check out her current workout routine. She has completely changed her body type by reducing calories dramatically, increased cardio and rep ranges…
 
Also, I follow a similar workout routine like Jamie Eason so you need to get your facts straight… When I check out featured figure competitor’s workout routines they are very similar to mine with reps ranging from 8-15 …
 
You really have no clue how intense I workout out so I really don’t think you should judge my routine. I am nowhere near your typical social butterfly gym goer…
 
I go to the gym to train hard…no BS…   
 
Squatting 15 reps of 135lb is not considered bad at all… I never tested my 1 rep max but i am sure it’s is way up there… Maybe that is not ideal for an Olympic lifter but I AM NOT ONE…
 
By my last set my reps may go down to 12.. I know you won’t believe me but my legs beg bulky when I lift to heavy…
 
I tested it… I started lifting heavy for 2 months with no increase in calories or extra supplements.  My legs bulked up and my jeans went up a size… (NOT WHAT I wanted)  That is why i do higher reps with my lower body and low reps with my upper… Nothing against the iron, I wish i could lift heavier… I really do like the challenge…
 
 

 
OK…  yes, my last comment was very critical.  Let me explain.  It is so hard for most women to gain muscle, even if they are training to gain, and eating to gain…  and it is near impossible for a woman to gain muscle while on a calorie deficient diet.
I simply dont understand why you base your weight training on a style that is not effecient at causing muscle gain.  If you did, you would still probably not gain any, at most, very very little…  and the effort your body would make to attempt to remodel the tissue would go further, IMO, towards causing fat loss then the limited calories you are burning with your constantly changing high rep routine.
You also say that you are not interested in getting stronger.  I have to wonder why.  Do you understand that if you get stronger without gaining muscle (which is possible) that it means that you have aquired the ability to recruit more motor units for a given movement?
What do you think recruiting more motor units does to a movements calorie burning potential?  I am sure you can see where I am going.
So here is the reason for  the criticism.  I simply do not think the way you approach your weight training workouts is logical or is the best way to go about reaching your goals.
And furthermore…  anyone who has been in the gym or fitness business for a while has observed the “typical” female who wants to get into shape and, desperately needs to build some muscle to accomplish her goals, yet is afraid to lift anything but tricep extensions with little pink dumbells for fear of “bulking up”.
I am not putting you into that catagory…  however, dealing with that scenario time and again has made me, and many others I am sure, instantly see red when a girl starts to talk about how they dont want to get any stronger.
I would make you the following challenge.  If you KNOW that you cant gain a bunch of muscle while on a caloric deficient diet, then WHY NOT try to get your deadlift up to 300lbs, or your squat to 220lbs?  I think you might be surprised at how beneficial this could be to your training.
And by the way…  here is a video of me using Chelsea Kyle to demonstrate some technique points on the snatch.  She weighs about 110lbs, squats over 300lbs wearing only a belt, and is fairly petite.  I doubt you could say that she is too “bulky”.  She also has to eat over 3000 calories a day to maintain her weight.  Just something to think about…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3NqS0Ggsg8&feature=channel
 
 
 
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Glenn.. I do higher reps rages with my lower body ranging from 8-18 reps. You can get benefits of fat loss and muscle mass through these rep ranges as well.
 
With my upper body i follow rep ranges between 8-12 reps…
 
I will stop begging stubborn and listen to your suggestions.. What do I have to lose?   
  
 
You made a good point: 
 
Glenns Quote   ” You also say that you are not interested in getting stronger.  I have to wonder why.  Do you understand that if you get stronger without gaining muscle (which is possible) that it means that you have aquired the ability to recruit more motor units for a given movement?

What do you think recruiting more motor units does to a movements calorie burning potential?  I am sure you can see where I am going.”
 
What do you recommend that I change with my routine… can you give examples???
 
Also… I saw the video of Chelsea Kyle.  I am not saying there is anything wrong with her body however it is not the body type that i desire… She holds a lot of muscle however she is not that lean… 
 

yes, Glenn and i are saying two different things, i’m well aware of that. i am saying that if your goal is purely fat loss, you should go with HIIT and complexes instead of weightlifting routines. Glenn is challenging you to increase your strength and up your lifts because you keep calling out his female athletes that he trains, calling them bulky, and he wants to prove you wrong (which i agree with, hence the Nordin and Eason comments ).

if your goal is fat loss and to simply maintain muscle, all i am saying is that HIIT and complexes will burn more fat than a standard weightlifting routine of 3-4 exercises at 6-18 reps or whatever it is you are doing, and they will also maintain more than enough muscle mass for what your goals are.

if you “like” lifting weights, that’s fine and you can do that for fun, but if you have a serious goal of fat loss with no muscle gain, IMO it would be far more efficient to focus on other methods. HIIT and complexes will burn more calories and give you the same EPOC effects as weightlifting session without the “risk of creating a ton of bulky muscle”.

again i’ll reiterate that i’ve never said you need to increase your calories, i don’t see why that keeps being brought up. the increase in calories is a recommendation for people looking to put on muscle mass and weight, and you’ve made it abundantly clear that you have no intention of doing that, so don’t eat more calories.

Glenn is simply arguing the point that there are other methods besides calorie restriction and lifting light weights. it is perfectly possible to lift heavy weights and eat a lot of calories and still be lean, as evidenced by Chelsea Kyle and Jon North.

and i’m not quite sure what your definition of lean is if you don’t think Chelsea is lean… do you mean thin? do you mean chiseled so you can see musclulature like with a body builder? i don’t really understand how you are differentiating Chelsea’s “body type” from yours based on the pictures you have in your profile, cause it doesn’t look like she is carrying around significantly more bulk than you.

      
Pete…. Your previous comment disagrees with Glenns. You are saying to reach my goals I should do HIIT and complexes (no training routine) however Glenn is suggesting that i try to increase my squat, dead lift, and strength by increasing weight and deceasing reps..

Laura, if you will remember, when I first heard what your goals were, I asked why you were training with weights at all, why not just do more HIIT, or something.  So I dont think we are really contradicting each other.
 
You guys are staying two completely different things.
 
I am not against gaining muscle and i am fully aware “that lean body mass helps to burn fat, and that women can’t really naturally gain too much muscle mass anyways due to low testosterone levels (without steroids at least)” I KNOW THIS .. Have you not read my previous comments?
 
Lean muscle mass is “beautiful” and those models are gorgeous however they had goals… At one point their goal was to build muscle mass then it changed to fat loss/cutting especially for their photo shoots and competitions… I have a good amount of lean muscle mass… I am NOT against it…  “SH*T” why is my point not getting across!!
 
By the way, I follow Pauline Nordins blog and she is no longer squatting 200lb (low reps) because she does not like that BULKY look…  Check out her current workout routine. She has completely changed her body type by reducing calories dramatically, increased cardio and rep ranges…

I think the point was that they are carrying significantly more muscle than you, and look damn good doing it.

Also, I follow a similar workout routine like Jamie Eason so you need to get your facts straight… When I check out featured figure competitor’s workout routines they are very similar to mine with reps ranging from 8-15 …
 
You really have no clue how intense I workout out so I really don’t think you should judge my routine. I am nowhere near your typical social butterfly gym goer…
 
I go to the gym to train hard…no BS…   
 
Squatting 15 reps of 135lb is not considered bad at all… I never tested my 1 rep max but i am sure it’s is way up there… Maybe that is not ideal for an Olympic lifter but I AM NOT ONE…
 
By my last set my reps may go down to 12.. I know you won’t believe me but my legs beg bulky when I lift to heavy…
 
I tested it… I started lifting heavy for 2 months with no increase in calories or extra supplements.  My legs bulked up and my jeans went up a size… (NOT WHAT I wanted)  That is why i do higher reps with my lower body and low reps with my upper… Nothing against the iron, I wish i could lift heavier… I really do like the challenge…
 
 [/QUOTE]

really when it all comes down to it, the original question of the thread asked if whole body workouts or body splits were more efficient for fat loss. given these optinos, i’ll say whole body workouts over splits, but really when it comes down to it i am going to recommend HIIT/complexes for “fat loss without muscle breakdown”.

it looks like we probably agree, but even if Glenn and i did have differing opinions, that’s okay with me. i have a lot of respect for him and what he’s been able to accomplish as a coach, regardless of what the debate is.

I stand corrected, I only looked at a couple of pics of one of the mentioned girls before I made that last post…  after looking at another girl…  she is not carrying that much muscle.

After reading Pete’s last post, I have to agree.  This thread has gone way, way off track.  For the record…
If you want to lose fat and prevent muscle loss, then do 2-3 whole body workouts per week.  These workouts should be brief and high intensity.  No need to spend a lot of extra time with the weights if you are NOT trying to gain muscle.  2-3 post-warmup sets of 5 reps on a major upper body pulling exercise, same for a major upper body pushing exercise, same for a leg exercise, would, IMO, be all most people would need to prevent muscle loss, or at least prevent major muscle loss when dieting.  It is inevitable that you are gonna lose SOME muscle if you lose a significant amount of fat.  Of course, this assumes that you are using the maximal weights that you can during your work sets.
Take the extra time you are not spending in the weight room to get out on a track and do  HIIT style sprints a couple of times a week.  If you have access to a KB, 3ea 10 minute sessions a week, one with swings, one with snatches, and one with clean and jerk are great.  Thats a very, very underestimated form of cardio.  Switch hands as much as you want, but the object is to not let the KB touch the ground for 10 minutes.
I would favor combing a cardio activity that is mostly legs, with other activities that activate the back, shoulders, arms, and abs because I think working the whole body during your cardio sessions aids in not losing muscle…  vs for instance cardio that concentrates only on the legs.  If you have access to a C2 rower, wouldnt hurt to throw that into the cardio mix either.
And one more little thing.  I think its generally preferrable, if you have fat to lose, and that is your main goal….  is to just buckle down and get the fat off, and accept that you are going to probably lose a little muscle in the process.  Better to just get it done, then get to work getting stronger and building muscle than to fool around in the never-never land of not eating quite enough to gain any muscle and eating just a little too much to lose that last amount of fat. This never-never land is typical of teenage boys that cant quite decide whether they want a 6 pack or bigger arms, and manage to achieve neither.

Wow!! This entire debate has completely turned around.  We are back at square one. I told you my goal was fat loss from the start…
 
Glenn… You were trying to convince me that I should lift heavier (which increases motor units thus equals fat loss) and try to increase my squat and deadlift.  You also told me that i should increase my calories because it looked like my thyroid was completely shot…
 
Know you are agreeing with Pete saying that I should do whole body workouts including HIIT…
 
I told you from the start that i do 3 whole body workouts, 3 HIIT sprinting workouts, and one metabolic complex workout per week. You were arguing with me about what I was already doing!!! I told you I was confident with my diet/workout and just needed time to get back on track….
 
Anyway! I will continue to do what I am doing however I will take your advice about adding a 10 min. kettle bell cardio routine and rowers.. I am perfectly fine with accepting some muscle loss and know it come along with losing fat… I will try to take proper supplements/nutrition to prevent as much muscle loss as possible. 
 
I know I have my training down however i am trying to play with macros and figure out what works best for my body (whether being more protein, fat or carbs)
I am not obsessed with counting macros, I am more about justifying the proper ratio/portions… I would love to speed my metabolism through nutrition manipulation… This is my mission.
 
If you have other great kettle bell routines or complexes i would love to see them and try them out…

What do you guys think about this high volume training workout by charles poliquin..
 
its looks pretty good.. i am thinking about trying it this week
 
“Very High Volume Arm Workout”
This is a great routine for hypertrophy. It involves training with incomplete rest intervals. It is inspired by one the training systems developed by IFBB pro Milos Sarcev, who has advised many top physiques competitors from Monica Brant to Dennis Wolf.
 
 
A-1 Scott Thick EZ Bar Curls 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-2 Elbows Under Bar Close Grip Bench Presses 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds
A-3 Seated Hammer Curls 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-4 California Presses 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-5 Standing Mid Grip Supinated Low Pulley curls Curls 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-6 Standing Rope Pressdowns 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo,
rest 5 seconds

A-7 Standing Rope Neutral Grip Low Pulley curls Curls 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-8 Standing V-grip Pressdowns 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-9 Standing Mid Grip Barbell 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-10 Reverse Grip Bench Presses on Multi-Grip Bar* 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds.
             * Hand position is in between supinated and neutral

A-11 Standing Kettlebells Curls Curls 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-12 Seated Two Arm French Presses with One Dumbbell 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-13 Standing Mid Grip EZ Bar Reverse Curls 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-14 Standing EZ bar French Presses 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-15 Scott Close Pronated Poliquin Bar Reverse 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

A-16 Seated Two Arm French Presses with Poliquin Thick Parallel Triceps Bar 8-12 reps on a 30X0 tempo, rest 5 seconds

wow this is all way over my head, as far as the split workouts i never did two workouts in a day, I neevr thought there was any point. My Bodybuilding workouts did last a long time and I guess I did two in one workout becuase they would have to kick my ass out after a while.  I always thought that once the “pump” was big on whatever body part you where working then keep the training going! Once the Pump starts to fade, then move onto the next muscle group.  I always did two or three muscle groups a workout, and I always took a day off every other day. I felt like that program worked for my body, becuase I basicly did two in one, and I do beleive in over training in body building.  these are just my opinions and what worked for me.  was I doing it right!??   ps: I think you are all wrong in this crazy heated thread!!   expecially that Penlday guy!!    lol jk

 
 
Its really not that “over your head”  its only 16 sets.. Its pretty average for a body building workout… I would not suggest this every day however its is a good change of pace… “high volume”  

OMG this is GLENN!!!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtM6dLvQOms&feature=related